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On-Line Casino of the Month
Thursday, January 22, 2004
IBS Applications and Feedback on ITS
IBS - the Infallible
Baccarat System continues to perform wonderfully. Not only, it's
an excellent system for Baccarat, but its purchasers are finding all kinds
of ways to apply it in their favorite games, such as Roulette, Craps and
I have extracted some ideas from the
from the innovative ways of using IBS and their test results, and I'll
present them to you this week.
"Maybe try using IBS MM method on the
Hard 6 and/or Hard 8 in Craps...most casinos have minimum bets of $1 on the
hardway bets and so I was wondering if maybe that is something that
could be looked at because we could have a bank of 1000 units and it would
only be $1000.
Even if nothing works long term (I believe IBS is the closest thing we have
seen to having something that works long term), I still think it is a great
deal of fun to explore different approaches to
"Ok I am doing some preliminary testing just to get a feel for how this
system might work out.
After 4 pages in the Zumma Craps book, which represents roughly 4.91 hours
of play, I am up to +254 units. Which comes out to about 51.73 units per
hour. Not bad but as we all know,
everything works in the beginning of the Zumma book and gets destroyed
towards the end LOL. The largest bet I had to place so far with this would
have been 32 units, and I had to place
that twice in a row and then on the 3rd time it was placed, the Hard 6 hit
at 9:1 and recovered what I was down, and put me ahead by +254 units.
If I remember right, there is a place in the middle of the Zumma book, that
the hard 6 goes to sleep for something like 60 or 70 losses in a row. I will
keep testing tonight and update everyone
how it goes."
"I think constantly betting the place 6 or Place 8, even on come out rolls,
using the IBS MM is a good idea, even better than just trying to go for the
Hardways but the reason I am focusing on
the Hardways at this time is my local casino allows $1 bets on the Hardways
and therefore I can afford a 1000 unit bank much easier than trying to
afford a 1000 units at the $10 or $12
"OK I am up to the middle of Page 22 and I have made +1019 units of profit.
It is looking good. The biggest drawdown I ever had was somewhere over 100
units, and this is using a 1000 unit
bankroll. If one wanted to be even more safer you could use a 5000 unit
bankroll and you would be well armed. At this point, if this were real play
I would be putting aside MY 1000 units and
playing only with casino money, risk-free. But I will march on just to see
"By the way the IBS on Place 6 looks like it is even better if one has the
funds for it...but for now I will keep testing the Hardways Bet using IBS
all the way through the Zumma book to see what
the result is."
"Great idea taking off on a tangent like this. Good thinking. You can be
encouraged if you somehow manage to get this thing successfully past page
100. Not that it will carry the book but
most systems fail before even reaching that point let alone the last half."
"With that 60 + sleeper looming in the middle have you decided to use a loss
limit under the IBS 1000 unit bankroll? Of course if you can maintain that
46 + unit per page you could say
"What me worry"?
"Another update --
End of Page 24, representing 26.98 hours of play, the system has produced
+1133 units of profit, or about 42 units of profit per hour."
"I am sure that there is a way that the Field could be combined with the
Hard 6/8 and using IBS could make a method that would be very interesting
and potentially profitable, after I finish this
method I will look at that idea next..."
"The book has 35,000+ actual casino dice rolls, representing over 300 hours
of play at live Las Vegas craps tables. I have been applying normal IBS
betting rules, but instead of shooting for
the +1 win I just accept however many units are paid to me when the bet
wins, due to the 9:1 payoff on the Hard 6. A friend of mine developed a more
conservative version that we are testing
as well, that does not require placing large bet amounts therefore it takes
longer to get to the nerve-wracking large unit bets."
"I really haven't played the dice much lately, but I was starting to think
there might be advantages to staying at the same table. As you said, when
you move to another one you have may have little idea of what has been going
on. If you stay at one table you may get a sense of the ebb and flow, and
bet only when you think the time is right. This would require some patience
and might be a bit tedious for some people."
"It looks like your idea is showing some promise. Here's something else you
might want to take a look at :
http://members.aol.com/jimferr/Alternate2.html. Go down to Place 6/8
after a seven out. It might require a bigger bankroll than you would like,
but it's kind of interesting."
"OK the hard 6 system has finally hit a bad spot in the tester book...I was
up by about 1300 units and then hit a losing streak that must have lasted at
least 40 in a row...I lost the entire 1300
profit and dipped about 210 units into the imaginary 1000-unit
bankroll...then in 2 back-to-back wins it won back the 210 and put me up to
+1590 units. So obviously this bet, (which of course only wins like
10% of the time and is less than the theoretical 26% needed to win) either
needs a more conservative version (which we think we may have already) or
maybe I should have applied the Split Bet 9 (which I did not)...also I think
that using a 5000-unit bank might be better as well.
I am also testing the Place 6 bet on the side, using IBS...I will give
another update soon..."
"Here is a neat and quite profitable system for Sixes and Eights:
1. Wait for a 7 to roll, and
2. Wait for a point of 4,5,9, or 10
3. Place bet the 6 and 8 for ( $3.00 or $6.00 or $9.00 or $12.00 or .....)
4. When EITHER number hits, take BOTH down.
5. If the point is made, or five rolls occur without any 6's or 8's, take
both bets down, and
6. Wait for another 7 to roll
This system can easily make $10.00 an hour making $3.00 bets or $40.00 per
hour with $12.00 bets etc. up to $100.00 with $30.00 bets. The system will
win the majority of sessions as played above, but should be greatly enhanced
by incorporating IBS. If anyone tests and/or plays this system using IBS,
please post the results for all to see."
"I may have found a way to play IBS on the dozens at roulette. I have been
playing it like crazy against
spins I have on file and so far I am winning like crazy. 1 unit for
every 2 spins of the wheel.
I'm only betting one dozen at a time using an old pattern recognition
systems bet selection method. The wild thing is you don't even have to win
back a whole line.
Like say you have something like
You only have to come up +1 unit from your last highest score so you could
lose a couple times and make one 13 unit bet win and still come up +1 and
rather than having to make the next bet, which would be 7-7-13 = 27 you just
start back a 1-0. This looks like it allows you to extend the amount of
losses you can take or wins needed depending on how you want to look at it.
Check out this losing sequence that I was able to not only overcome but win
I over came the losses with the 2 wins at the end 53L to 13W.
The way I am selecting the bet is by waiting for two events. The first is
called normal play or NP. You write out the dozens as they come up and when
you see one of them repeat you bet for a repeat and keep betting until you
2 here you would bet for the second dozen to come up again.
The second event is what is called a Pattern repeat or Patter play or PP.
That is when you see a dozen skip one time and return again. You bet for the
skip return to continue. Like this
2 Here you would bet for the 3rd dozen to come up again
3 Here you would bet for the 2nd dozen to come up again
That is all there really is to the pattern recognition if you can really
call it that. It hits some long runs of 2,3,4 or more in a row some times.
But sometimes it can go a long run without a repeat.
There is one more that is called OP or Odd Play that is when you bet on the
3 odd or third dozen back to repeat. I haven't been working with this one
but this is how it works
2 Here you would bet on the 1st dozen to repeat"
"I ran a test run last night for using IBS with Place 6, and the 1st 2 pages
(about 2 hours 15 minutes of play) produced 72 units of profit...I am
assuming that the units are $12 each, which actually pay $14 when you
win...I don't think I am going to "hard test" the entire book but instead I
am going to go through and count the "losing streaks" because I already know
how IBS works, so this should be faster, as a matter of fact I should have
an idea as to how well (or poorly) it will work by tomorrow night..."
"In order to easily test the place 6 IBS approach, I am simply putting the
wins/losses in WLWL format into a Notepad file that way I can print it out
and go thru it really quickly, and I will know
by tomorrow night how well Place 6 IBS does. Then I can focus on the
outlined system, which might be even better because you are not exposed to
the 7 on the come out roll, from the looks of that system one might not
build up large lines either."
"Why not place the 6 & 8 right away on the come out roll? Couldn't it roll
as easy as a 7? Do you use a progression if it misses? You weren't
implying to use IBS were you? Keep on Winning..."
"I think we are winning at least 40% of the bets but I'm not sure...at this
point I am not running the financials, I am just looking in the book and
typing the wins/losses as they occur and then I
will go back and test them. it is much quicker this way. I am almost half
done with the book right now. If someone wants to help out by getting
started on calculating the financials it would be
greatly appreciated. Otherwise I will post more results tonight."
"This IBS MM is so interesting I wonder if it could also be applied to
sports betting, such as Joel Shapiro's MLB results...I saw last year his
longest losing streak was something like 7 in a
row so that wouldn't be too shabby. Of course, there is only 1 (maybe 2)
games per day with that method so the results across a season might not be
that huge but at least it would probably make money...Just an idea..."
"I did maybe a couple hundred decisions with a different bet selection,
placing the 6 or 8 just to see how it went. I played as if my wins were only
the base unit or units, placing the odds profits aside. Was a bit surprised
how fast that $1 on every six adds up. A $24 bet netting 2/3 of a unit.
Made $157 plus $79 in odds profit for a total of $236 with $6 as the base
unit. Just a relevant idea as the test was short.
Looks like your results would be relatively simple, for those who do such
things, to plug into a computer."
"The results you got in the preliminary testing are awesome. For me, the
goal is now to use these 35,000 Craps decisions to see what the worse case
scenario might be. If we see a streak
that wipes out all the profits then of course we have to either adjust the
system (by using split bets) or drop the idea and look at something else.
So far I am halfway done with the book and will be posting some more results
on here soon."
"PS I tested Joel Shapiro's MLB results using standard IBS and for the
season, it made 94 units of profit, but the season ended and there was a 16
unit bet left at the end of the line, so had
there been one more game, it could have gone either way, either winning *at
least* (remember, it is betting underdogs, some of which pay up to +200 and
beyond!) 16 units...or drawing
down another 16 units so, at least we have a sample for that as well."
"I was testing the Don't Pass and it looked good, no major problems yet, but
I decided to start with Place 6 as it produces more results per hour than
the Don't Pass. But that one will be really easy to test once I get
"I am beginning to think the don't pass after pass is even better that
baccarat for IBS."
"On the same number of plays where I reach large drawdowns at Baccarat, I
don't playing craps. I know I will eventually but it may be much less
"Well I am at Page 20 in the book and I am at +61 units profit.
Largest bet I had to make was 12 units and the drawdowns are not too bad at
"I am up to Shooter Number 478 and I am
up 90 units. According to the book, it takes about 40 hours of play to get
this far, so that averages about 5.3 units per shooter. If you use a $10
value, that is $900 per week profit if you are able to play 40 hours per
week, not too shabby...I will keep testing and lets see what happens..."
"I will be doing the number crunching on PLACE 6 soon but I am getting this
one out of the way 1st...and actually the Don't Pass After Pass looks better
"So far, I am at Shooter #895 and I am up +158 units, I think the biggest
bet at this point was 16 units."
"Ok in testing, I finally hit a spot where I had to bet a 72 unit bet...not
too bad yet but we are finally starting to see some divergence...I am at
Shooter 1,166 and I am at +181, so this system will require more than 100
units (as I figured it would) but still looks promising and relatively safer
than betting on, say, Baccarat..."
"I like the bet don't pass after 1 pass also , but units won per hour of
play is low."
At Shooter 1,166 I am going to say it is somewhere around 85-90 hours of
play...looks very safe but maybe that's only because there are not a lot of
plays per hour..."
"After I finish this system I will number crunch for the Place 6 and then I
will maybe look at Craps Pro (dice counting) using IBS as the MM for that
Thanks to all forum participants who contributed in those valuable ideas.
You're welcome to visit the discussion forum and follow the thread:
IBS on Hardway Bets and see where it will further lead.
With the aid of powerful computers and
excellent programmers, parametric tests are being performed to find the
ideal bankroll, split level, no-split, etc. parameters, which yields the
results for IBS.
So far, for the non-split version, the best bankroll is 1024 units and this
results in +3646 units at the end of 600 Zumma shoes. Highest profit reaches
+5141 units in Shoe 318 hand 33. Only
8 runs require a larger bankroll than 1024, where the run is abandoned and
up to shoe 318 only 1. Average profit per shoe is 6.08.
For the split bet, the best bankroll so far is 700 units. This yields a
total of +986 units at the end of the 600 Zumma shoes. Highest profit
reaches +2476 units at shoe 369 hand 49. A bankroll higher than 700 units is
required 16 times, where the run is abandoned."
More comments on IBS' performance:
"Izak, excellent testing. Kudos for the programmers, good job guys.
It is apparent like I and Mr V. and others have said, that for this type of
system, it is better to go with the larger bankroll.
The whole goal of your original premise was to find a betting strategy that
beats practically all shoes. I commend that of you, all though it is
impossible with the limits set by the casinos combined with the fact that
these games are slight negative expectation. All this splitting adaptation
is nice to accommodate the smaller bankrolls, however with this type of
approach, the whole goal is to grind out profits while overcoming extreme
deviations. If you use a smaller bankroll, then you will bust more
frequently. Neither approach is worse than the other, but when you
have less of a frequency of busting out, you may achieve a very long string
of wins without encounter a bust-out."
"I think you will get the best results by just using a stop loss instead of
splitting with the 200 unit stop loss you made a profit of 5000 units and
I'm sure if you go down to a 100 stop loss you will still show a nice
profit. I just think the splitting technique does no take advantage of the
system because you will have times where you will be spending a lot of time
trying to recover and may never do so its probably better to accept you
losses right away go on to another table and start winning again."
"I want suggest a thing to improve this system:
I think that, for every shoe, you play IBS until you P reach the 26% of
decisions. Then stop play till a new shoe. In this way, in EVERY shoe, you
can come up as a winner as you can close the run without big bets."
"I agree with you it seems better to just accept your loss. Plus it looks
good to lose every once in a while.
And if you can win long term and pull a decent number of units per shoe
average what does it matter if you take some losses."
"I like the idea of being able to
determine when Player is showing over 30% or the time but I am not sure how
to do it soon enough to avoid a large drawdown.
I have thought about stopping my betting after 3 losses and starting it back
again after 3 wins or something along those lines."
"To me it looks like maybe the best way to play IBS is to use the 200 units
flat out but to stop someplace within the shoe."
"I count player decision, when it's still reaching 20, I close the run and
exit the shoe. I'm still making few tests about it; it seems better than
playing in a blind way."
So you count player hands and banker and when player is showing less that 3
in 10 you exit the shoe"
So, those were also some variations that
players have adapted, all with good success.
IBS is still on
special for $100, but not for long. And it still includes the $298
Reward system for free upon your purchase.
Click here to place your
There was also some feedback from
ITS (the Intraday Trade System) purchasers this week.
Since it's been in the market, it has passed all the tests. Here is
the feedback from a happy customer:
There's been an amazing lack of any feedback regarding the trading systems
of TTS and ITS. I might as well
get the ball rolling. Let me begin by saying that the creator of the system
(Edmond Petitjean) answered
all the questions I had for him very promptly and courteously...most
refreshing. And I had quite a few questions because I used to trade futures
and options for
fun 5 years ago.
As you folks may have seen in the ad for ITS, there's a money-back guarantee
if you come out behind after 10 consecutive trades on the FTSE100. I
purchased the system at the beginning of this month (Jan 2004) and have been
studying it for several weeks. Now that I've got a firm grasp of it I
decided to paper trade the system going back to July 2, 2004 and paper
trading the system through January 6, 2004.
The system performed AMAZINGLY well. From the dates above, the ITS system
indicated 15 trades to be taken. I had 14 winners and 1 loser. I did not try
to calculate what the actual dollar
figures that would have been for the trades, but my initial guess is that
each win would have gotten me between .92 units and .95 units. The losing
trade would have lost 1 unit.
Pretty amazing if you ask me. If you follow the system to the letter anybody
would have taken the same trades I did...there's no room for "judgment".
Edmond, I salute you. I'm going to make a ton of money with this."
Wishing you all the best,
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